Okay, time to put up or shut up. I told you (all five of you) that I'm going to do this thing. So, I've thrown together some models to give me a rough sense of how things will look together - both models from different lines and parts of models across lines.
First up are my Lannister forces that are 75% assembled. Again, I intend to use Dux Britanniarum (DB) - and occasionally SAGA - so my force composition will be:
1 Lord
2 Nobles
1 Unit of 6 "Elite" foot (or 4 Shock Cavalry) - i.e. Household Knights
2 Units of 6 "Warriors" - i.e. Men-at-Arms
3 Units of 6 "Levy" - i.e. Liveried Retainers
1 Unit of 4 "Skirmishers" - Archers or Crossbows
(SAGA, as you probably know, uses 4 elite, 8 warrior, and 12 levy, for which I'll build extra levy)
So, let's start off with the forces of Lannister, for which I'll use mostly Perry plastic WotR. My design logic is that the Houses of Lannister, Tyrell and Baratheon are the wealthiest and therefore equate to mid-15th century styles with some minor modifications and mix-ins to reduce the immediate association with WotR.
 | |||||||
| Lannisters with High-Falutin' Crossbows - aka "Skirmishers" in DB |
 |
| Lannister Liveried Retainers - aka "Levy" in DB |
 |
| Lannister Men-at-Arms - aka "Warriors" in DB |
- Get another six of these but in a different pose (standing)
- Use my plastic Perry WotR bodies in full harness, with kettle helms, pavises and spear arms or sword arms from my Fireforge kits.
- Claymore Casting Ottoburn knights on foot
 |
| Lannister Elite Horse - aka Shock Cavalry in DB |
I will also create an alternative "elite" unit of 6 foot knights and I'm probably going to go with Perry metal Agincourt foot command/French high command, picking out the figures that are wearing jupons that can be adorned with bannermen sigils. I may even swap some heads to align with these heavy cavalry pictured here. But if anyone has better suggestions, I'm open to clever ideas.
Next up...STARK conversions!
Greate !
ReplyDeleteNice to see that you have started up the project. I think you should try to restrain your self and just do 2 Dux Britt size forced so you can keep focus and get them painted and have a the possibillity to game some while you continue to expand to the other houses.
Best regards Michael
Thanks, Michael.
DeleteI cannot argue with your logic. However, in defense of my compulsion there are two considerations:
1) Between all these kits to create Lannister and Stark, I have enough materials to create 5 units of Greyjoy (2 elite, 3 warrior) not to mention "foederati" mercenaries aka "sellswords" in ASoIaF.
2) Using Greyjoy (sea born raiders) against Stark and Lannister (civilized landsmen) allows me to use Dux Britanniarum without much modding.
To someone's suggestion somewhere, I may paint Greyjoy myself and farm the other two forces out to painting services. Though my tight Scottish ancestry balks at paying for what I can do myself - theoretically.
God thinking !
DeleteWants to get start playing with as few changes as possible and go from there.
I suppouse you already seens this blog with some nice 28mm minis from the same setting as yyours: http://finiatures.blogspot.se/search/label/Westeros
Best regards Michael
I'm with Michael, focus will see far better progression, both with the forces at your disposal and a natural escalation of 'your war'.
ReplyDeleteThe shields and cloaks really make a difference to the knights. Well done!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLooking good so far!
ReplyDeleteI agree that you should probably save your pikes for the Starks. Given that Westeros is (more or less) a super-sized version of the British Isles, it seems fair to equate the Starks with the Scots, and the Lannisters with the bill-wielding English.
Thanks, Thad. That was exactly my line of reasoning. That and wanting the forces to be visually distinctive. Thanks for chiming in on it!
DeleteI've only read the first book, and when i read the battle it seemed to me that both Stark and Lannisters (all perhaps?) used pikes. The Lannisters were arrayed in dense pike blocks, maybe with some bill armed men in the mix (like the Swiss of the 15th century). The Starks were the same, with some men (i guess the 'men-at-arms') with large oval shields. Basicaly with pavises.
ReplyDeleteI think it might be based on the British Isles, but not a carbon copy.
As for your warriors, maybe some Perry metals or plastics and leave the Claymore Castings for the Starks to give both sides a distincive look.
BTW, i noticed you put 2 pikemen together the same as i've done on some of mine. Made me laugh.
Bonjour Max!
DeleteThanks for calling out details from the books. My last reading of the books was years ago. Maybe I should go back through them.
About the pikemen..put enough hobbyists in a room with enough Perry plastic kits...
Like I said on a couple of forums already, looking excellent. :)
ReplyDelete"I'm already considering swapping out pikes for bills and halberds and leaving Stark with primitive (and distinctive) pikes. I welcome your opinions in the comments."
Are pikes more primitive? I'm far from any kind of expert, but in my wee bit of reading for ECW games, shorter pole-arms (halberds, anyway) were reduced to all but a badge of officers that led pike blocks. Or is that just a(n un)happy accident of swiss and italian pike tactics?
"it seems fair to equate the Starks with the Scots, and the Lannisters with the bill-wielding English"
Ah, well, there's another bit of history I learned today. :)
Maxamillian: I've read them all up to the latest release, but that's something I need to do myself - take note of the arms and armour!
"the shields are intended to look almost decorative, retained primarily to carry the sigils of named Lannister bannermen from the books. At the very least, red cloaks will look flash."
This is something else I've been scratching my head about, for lack of knowledge.
- 'Household' knights are not all of House Lannister, then? Will these be a varied assortment from vassal houses? Lannister colours on cloaks, shields - anywhere else?
- Is it possible for a 'unit' of knights to be all strictly Lannisters, or any other single House? Provided they've got enough 'Sers' with the family name, or landless sworn swords?
- 'Household' knights are not all of House Lannister, then? Will these be a varied assortment from vassal houses? Lannister colours on cloaks, shields - anywhere else?
Delete- Is it possible for a 'unit' of knights to be all strictly Lannisters, or any other single House? Provided they've got enough 'Sers' with the family name, or landless sworn swords?
Vyrmis, the short answer is "all of the above". Meaning,
a) they could be truly "household" retainers, well equipped and wearing Lannister colors and livery badges/sigils.
b) they could be sons and younger brothers of senior bannermen who comprise a retinue under a Lannister commander. And as such retain their own family sigils but wear a Lannister-issued red cloak to denote they belong to the inner household retinue. As much a uniform as an honor.
c) they could be a body of knights assembled into a shock force with all wearing only their own devices. Think French HYW armies.
For table top purposes. My preference will be to bring the color and variation of the different households (shield sigils) while retaining a visual element that ties them to their army (red cloaks).
I don't necessary think that the pikes would be a Stark-unique weapon. I imagine that when the Lannisters go to war they would raise levies which they would arm with pikes, reserving the heavier bills for better trained troops such as household troops.
ReplyDeleteIn my own project I will use Lannister pikemen but will have a high ratio of billmen mixed in with them.
And as I said on LAF, those knights look great!
Hi Tomek,
DeleteI agree, the "historical" logic is not the stronger argument. It's more about the creating visual differences since in game terms (Dux Brit at any rate) they'll function the same. The miniatures are just elaborae markers.
Thanks for helping me rationalize NOT pulling off all the arms!
Great looking stuff, I will continue to watch with interest.
ReplyDeleteAs for weapons, pike definitely is a characteristic Northern weapon, but the Lannisters use it too. At the Green fork the Lannisters are noted as having pike, spear, swordsmen and axemen (not the mountain clans, which are listed separately. I assume the axemen are in fact billmen or similar).
I'd definitely use the Claymore Castings Scots as Starks; they fit the bill perfectly I think.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Thanks for sharing an opinion! Those Claymore Castings are getting lots of votes of confidence. Now if they would only arrive...
Delete